Ep #99: Why Loving Yourself Is an Inside Game with Jamie Berman

Why Loving Yourself Is an Inside Game with Jamie Berman

My guest on the show this week is my friend Jamie Berman, who is a certified weight loss coach who specializes in working with women who have Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome. We’re not diving into her experiences with PCOS specifically today, but if you want to know more, you have to check her work out! Instead, what we’re discussing today is about achieving all the things you want, striving for a certain feeling, and then not feeling that way when you get to the “finish line.”

We all have that experience of wanting to make a certain amount of money, or losing weight, or finding the perfect partner, and then not feeling the way we thought we would when we got there. Jamie is talking us through how to cultivate the feelings you want to experience now, and why unless you do the necessary work on yourself, you’re going to have the same feelings and be the exact same person you are right now.

Listen in this week as we get into the importance of prioritizing self-love in everything you do. This is at the core of Jamie’s work, and I so enjoyed having her talking us through her journey and how keeping this at the forefront can be so life-changing in so many ways.

If you want to keep this conversation going, you have to join my free Design You Podcast community on Facebook. We have great conversations over there about the podcast episodes and our podcast guests are in there too! So head on over and I’ll see you there! 

What You'll Learn From This Episode

  • How Jamie lost 50 pounds twice and the difference between the two times.
  • The transformations Jamie has been through.
  • What Jamie thought it would feel like when she achieved her goals and the reality that showed up.
  • How Jamie moved through not feeling the way she expected to when she got to her goals.
  • Why Jamie prioritizes making her goals fun for her and how she ensures this.
  • The difference between striving towards your vision versus doing something you feel obliged to do.
  • The mental space you want to be in to go after your goals successfully.
  • Why you have to cultivate the feelings you want purposefully.
  • The truth about hustling and why it’s not necessary to be successful.

Featured On The Show

Full Episode Transcript

You are listening to The Design You Podcast with Tobi Fairley episode number 99.

Female Announcer: Welcome to The Design You Podcast, a show where interior designers and creatives learn to say, “No,” to busy and say, “Yes,” to more health, wealth, and joy. Here is your host, Tobi Fairley.

Tobi Fairley: That’s right friends. We’re one episode away from my hundredth episode. 100! What in the world? I can’t believe it. It’s been just about two years since we launched, and it has been fun every moment of the way. I’ve loved every episode. And I especially love this one. So let me tell you what this episode is about today. I have my friend Jamie Berman on the show today. Jamie is going through Master Coach training with me, and just a little heads up, you’re going to be hearing from a lot of the incredible ladies that are from all sorts of backgrounds and niches, and do amazing things, that are going through Master Coach training with me right now. It’s super fun. We’ve gotten really close. Once I got to know them so much better, there was just so much talent and genius, that I knew I wanted to bring to you. Jamie is one of those people.

Tobi Fairley: So, today Jamie Berman is here to talk about what happens when you basically get everything you want in your life and it doesn’t make you feel the way you thought it was going to feel. You know what I mean, right? Let me tell you about Jamie. She is a weight loss coach specializing in working with women who have PCOS, polycystic ovarian syndrome. Now, we don’t really get into that topic today. If you’re interested in that, go check Jamie out. We’ll have all of her information in the show notes. She’s a certified weight loss coach through the Life Coach School, the place I trained for my Life Coach training. She specializes in working with women on fine tuning hormone health and nutrition, and optimizing their weight loss and wellbeing.

Tobi Fairley: Her whole reason for doing this is self-love, which I love, and I’ve talked about this on my Instagram, that I think self-care, which is very important, has become such a buzzword these days. We even get desensitized to it in a lot of ways. The real underlying message or issue or focus we should be looking at is more about self-love.

Tobi Fairley: She helps women with body positivity, and all of that has driven her to go back and look at what we’re talking on the podcast today, because she has lost 50 pounds herself several years ago. In fact, she’ll tell you how she lost it twice, and what the difference was. She has married the man of her dreams. She’s built a six-figure business. She hit $100K in her business, it wasn’t even hard.

Tobi Fairley: And all of these things that were happening that were on her goals list for so many years, and each time she would get to one and check in, she’s like, “Oh, I thought I was going to feel happier.” And I know a lot of you do that as well. When this happens, then I will be happy. I can’t wait for you to listen to this really insightful conversation that Jamie and I have about what to do when the thing you were waiting on to make you happy doesn’t work, and you realize that the whole time it was an inside game. So sit back, relax, give yourself some self-love and enjoy this amazing conversation with Jamie Berman.


Tobi Fairley: Hey Jamie, welcome to the Design You Podcast.

Jamie Berman: Thank you for having me.

Tobi Fairley: So much fun. I miss you. What people don’t know, is we just spent a crazy week together a few weeks ago going through Master Coach training in the Grand Caymans.

Jamie Berman: It was crazy and amazing.

Tobi Fairley: Yes, it was all of it. And the weird thing is, we go in not knowing each other really. We kind of did because we’d been coaching each other, but when you leave, I felt like I was leaving my sisters or something, and I don’t even have a sister, but I’m like, “These are my people. Now what are we going to do?”

Jamie Berman: We know everything about each other now.

Tobi Fairley: Exactly. So since I know everything about you, but our listeners don’t necessarily, tell them just the quick version of who you are and what you do.

Jamie Berman: Yeah, so I am a weight loss coach for women with polycystic ovarian syndrome. It’s also known as PCOS, which some people don’t know about, but a lot of women do, because one in 10 women actually have it, which is very surprising.

Tobi Fairley: Oh, interesting.

Jamie Berman: Yeah, it’s an endocrine disorder that affects a lot of different things. Your hormones for one thing, which of course, can cause weight gain, which is why I’m a weight loss coach for PCOS. But it also affects a lot of other things. It can affect infertility, it can cause irregular periods. It’s all over the place. The symptoms are all over, and it could just really affect your self-esteem, your self-image, and so I help women with, of course the weight loss, but going beyond that and really loving themselves and working with the self-esteem regardless of what symptoms are coming up.

Tobi Fairley: That’s awesome. We’re not necessarily having, although it’s fine if it comes up, but we’re not necessarily having a podcast about PCOS, but we are kind of, because we’re talking about what happens in just the journey of getting to your goals and dreams, and when it’s not what you think it’s going to be. So, a little bit of your story that I know is, and you can tell us exactly how much, but you have lost weight, you have PCOS, or is it, do you have it or had it?

Jamie Berman: Yeah.

Tobi Fairley: You always have it once you have it?

Jamie Berman: Yep. Always have it, but you can be maintaining it.

Tobi Fairley: Okay, perfect. So you’ll tell us how much weight you lost, and I also know you’ve hit some financial goals, which you’ll tell us about. The whole reason, when we were talking about having you on a podcast, we were just coaching each other one day, and we were talking about the fact that it’s so crazy that you think you’re going to go out in life and the only things you want or whatever was on your short list of your goals, and then you get those things, and you’re like, “Wait, this is not what I thought this was going to feel like. You mean I just brought the same version of me over to the other side of these goals?”

Tobi Fairley: That’s what we’re going to talk about today. So tell everybody what transformations you’ve been through, because I know it’s been some amazing stuff, and even how you thought you would feel before that, and how you actually felt. And we’ll just dig in, because I know this is going to apply to everybody listening that’s gone after a goal or a dream and they get it and they’re like, “Oh that’s it?” Right?

Jamie Berman: Oh yeah. For Sure. It’s crazy. And yeah, some of the things that have been on my bucket list, on my to do lists, my goals. I feel like I’ve been a dreamer since I was really young. I think it was actually a coping mechanism for me, because I grew up with alcoholism in my family. I spent a lot of time dreaming about the future, and how my future was going to be different from my past. I dreamed about making all this money and I was going to lose weight and I was going to move to LA. I’m from the Midwest. So I had all these big dreams. From the age of 18, once I finally got out of my house, I just started achieving. That was what I did. I started going after the goals. The first thing that I did was I moved out to LA with just my little car, my little convertible. I moved out here by myself.

Jamie Berman: I had this dream; I was going to make it happen. That was the first thing that I did. From there, I’m like, “Well, I’m in LA now. It’s amazing. I love living here, but now I have to lose the weight. I hate my body.” I had a very torturous relationship with my body. I wanted to lose weight. The next journey was going on a weight loss journey. So it’s very much always in this striving energy.

Jamie Berman: First it was getting out of St. Louis where I was from. I felt like I had to move to a big city. Then it was, “Well, now I have to lose the weight.” Then it took me about 10 years, I lost the weight.

Tobi Fairley: How much weight did you lose?

Jamie Berman: 50 pounds.

Tobi Fairley: 50 pounds, Awesome.

Jamie Berman: 50 pounds twice. I have to tell you about that, because I lost in two different ways.

Tobi Fairley: Okay.

Jamie Berman: But yeah, after finally losing the weight, then I was like, “Well, okay. I lost the weight, and now I need to create this business, and make all this money.” So I set a 100K goal, my first year of coaching, and I hit that goal.

Jamie Berman: And then I got to it, and I was in tears, because I’m just like, “Wait a minute, there’s not that much more that I’m super excited about achieving. I realize I got so many of the things,” I was looking around. I’m like, “I’m living in my dream home. I love my body now. I have this amazing career, but I don’t really feel any different.”

Tobi Fairley: And somewhere in there you got married too, right? And have an amazing relationship, and the man of your dreams, and all that. You’re like, “Literally, I’ve checked off every box.” Did it feel horrible, or it just felt mediocre, or it just didn’t live up to your expectations of you thought you were going to … like these things outside of you were going to create a feeling inside of you?

Jamie Berman: That’s the thing.

Tobi Fairley: Yeah.

Jamie Berman: It wasn’t that It felt bad by any means. I had created this amazing life, and I was so proud of myself, but I thought I would feel different. I thought once I got to this place that I had always dreamed of, that I would just feel confident all the time, never have negative emotions.

Tobi Fairley: Never a bad day, never a bad hair day, never want to eat a whole pizza or donuts, none of that. It all just evaporate, right?

Jamie Berman: I thought, “Once I make 100K, business is easy. You’re never going to run into any issues.”

Tobi Fairley: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yes.

Jamie Berman: I just got to that place and I was kind of in shock. I mean, I think I was depressed for two months, where I was just grieving this idea that I was going to be in this other place once I achieved these things. It sounds really weird, but it was just something that I went through.

Tobi Fairley: Yeah.

Jamie Berman: It’s been really eye-opening.

Tobi Fairley: Yeah, it’s so interesting. And I’m sure that you have probably said this and maybe heard it too, but when we were at Master Coach training, one of the things that I heard from one of the many coaches there, I can’t remember if it was Corrine Crabtree or somebody else, I don’t think it was, I think it was one of the other coaches. I think it was Katrina, who coaches doctors to lose weight. She said, “The thing about weight loss is, you’re just the same person in smaller clothes.”

Tobi Fairley: And I was like, “Whoa.” And that’s what we’re talking about here, right? Because you’re just the same person in smaller clothes, in a better house with more money in the bank, but you’re just still … of course you changed and grew in some ways, but unless you do the work, you’re still the same person in so many ways. We didn’t magically transform into a unicorn like we thought we would, right?

Jamie Berman: Totally right.

Tobi Fairley: Yes. Yeah.

Jamie Berman: We can’t rely on those outside changes to make us feel better.

Tobi Fairley: Yeah. So if you could pinpoint it, what was the feeling you thought you would feel? You said confident. Anything else? Just like-

Jamie Berman: This feeling of worthy and just … I think it was like I was striving so much to prove myself, to prove that I am worthy. And then I got there, and I’m like, “What was all that for? I’ve been worthy all along.

Tobi Fairley: Yes. I know. I did the same thing. I did the same thing. And then you’re like, “It’s so confusing, too.” You have that realization that I’ve almost killed myself to get there. And I made so many moments so miserable that could have just been fun, and I missed out on some stuff. For me, I would move on to the next thing immediately, and not even celebrate the success I had had in another area. Did you do that too?

Jamie Berman: Oh totally.

Tobi Fairley: Yeah.

Jamie Berman: Focus on that one thing that’s not going right.

Tobi Fairley: Exactly. Yeah, but you get that realization that … then you’re like, “Okay wait. I was worthy all along.” And you mostly believe that, especially when you’re like us, and you’re a life coach, and you’re working to believe it, but it’s still just so fascinating to me, because I’ve had the same experience to a degree. Then I was in this weird place of … I guess like, “Now what?” Almost like, if we’re not doing it for a purpose anymore to be worthy, and we can just lay that down, then do we just do nothing? What do we do? Right? Did you feel the same way?

Jamie Berman: I totally did, because I felt like through all of this, and through of course, our coaching, I’m like, “I have the recipe to manifest whatever I want. Now I know how to get results, so I don’t feel like there’s anything that I couldn’t get.” So I’m like, “The next thing is, oh my dream house, but I want to get a condo in Hawaii,” but it didn’t feel that exciting to me, because I’m like, “I’m letting go of this striving.”

Jamie Berman: It really was that “What’s the point?” Because for so long I think that the striving and the going for goals is what made me feel good in my life. I love going for things, right? [crosstalk 00:13:17] were not possible. Now I’m sitting here like, “Well, I don’t see that much that’s totally impossible. Now what?”

Tobi Fairley: So what did you do? What happened when you got there? When you’re like, “Okay.” I mean you were depressed for a little while. Did you have to do something to get out of the depression? Did you just let it be there? How did you move through it, and then what was the answer to the “Now what”?

Jamie Berman: Yeah. I think I just let myself be in it, and I got coaching, and I was really trying. I didn’t understand it, so I was trying to make sense of it, and I finally did. I think Master Coach training really helped with that. It’s been so beautiful, because it was like something just clicked and I realized, “Oh, if I’m not doing it for striving and to achieve something, now I just get to do things for fun.” And I never really understood that concept.

Tobi Fairley: Yeah. Me either. Like, “What?” Fun is this thing that you do when you finish your work.” And for me, I never finish my work, so fun was like, “No, no.” Like, “What?”

Jamie Berman: So now, in terms of my goals and things, it’s got to be fun. I know my mentors have told me this before, and I didn’t understand it at all. I’m like, “How could a Facebook funnel be fun?”

Tobi Fairley: Yeah.

Jamie Berman: But now, it’s like I’m not even letting myself go there if I can’t get to the place where I’m having fun, and it’s been life changing. It’s been amazing.

Tobi Fairley: So, is there a tool you’re using, or a process or a way of … I mean obviously, I know we both use the Thought Model tool that we were trained on, but how exactly … what do you mean by “If I can’t go there,” how do you go there, to think about something as fun?

Jamie Berman: Good question. Well, the first thing that I do, is I ask myself if I’m doing something out of … using the word should. Because I thought for so long, “I need to do it this way. I should, I should. I should.” I lived my life that way. “Well I should do this.” Now, if that word is in there, I just don’t do it.

Tobi Fairley: Wow.

Jamie Berman: Or, I change the way that I’m viewing it, and I’m like, “Is this a should or is this a want?”

Tobi Fairley: Give us an example. Does anything come to mind?

Jamie Berman: Yeah, for sure. We have the same mentor, Brooke. I used to take everything that she recommended and do it exactly the way she recommends it. 40 hours a week, my calendar would be completely filled with … I have to start with this, and then I do this, and then I do this, and I just took everything that she said, even if it didn’t feel like something that I wanted to do, I just forced myself to do it, because I’m like, “She’s successful, so that means that if I do it, I’ll be.” Right?

Tobi Fairley: Yes.

Jamie Berman: So I just forced myself. It was like living in actions in spite of negative emotion. Now what I’m doing is, I’m letting go of what I believe that other people think that I should do, or the way that other people have done it, and tuning more into what I want. I’m listening to way less content, and just really tuning in to what I want. I’m asking myself those questions every day. In my writing, it’s like, “What’s fun? What inspires me? What do I want to do?”

Jamie Berman: And I’m also doing things like stopping work a little earlier sometimes, and going to game night with friends. It actually feels a little uncomfortable. It’s like, “What would be fun? That would be fun if I just let myself do that.” So stuff like that.

Tobi Fairley: And so do you actually have fun when you get there usually or always? Have you shown up to anything that you made yourself go do that was fun, that you’re like, “Okay, this isn’t really that fun?”

Jamie Berman: So far, not so much.

Tobi Fairley: That’s hilarious.

Jamie Berman: Yeah.

Tobi Fairley: Okay. I love that you said that you were taking actions in spite of negative emotions, because I think that there’s something … and I know we want to talk about the place you want to achieve goals from, which is what you’re talking about, a place of fun. And maybe we’ll dig into that a little bit deeper, but I do think that it’s worth clarifying for a minute, because I know exactly what you mean, because I’ve done exactly what you’re talking about. And when you said that actions in spite of negative emotions, that really resonated with me. You know, from watching me go through coach training, that some of my work is feeling my feelings more than thinking myself through stuff.

Tobi Fairley: I’m definitely prone to that, but I think there’s a flip side to that too, because I think when we try things that are uncomfortable to grow, some people are going to be like, “Whoops, I have a negative emotion, I better stop this.” What’s the difference between the being uncomfortable, but still I want to achieve this goal, versus the actions in spite of negative emotions? I guess that’s the should? Or how do people know the difference of if just “Wow, I’m stretching myself, and it’s going to be amazing,” or “I’m forcing myself to do something because somebody else thinks that it’s a good idea?”

Jamie Berman: Yeah. Such a good question. I think it’s about … and I’ve thought about this, because I still do put myself out there, and I feel negative emotion often, but it’s where is it coming from, right? If my goal is inspiring me, if it feels good, if it’s something that I really want to do, like for example, I’m working on a course right now, and I don’t always want to record the videos for it, but I’m so excited for that vision. That’s how … it’s fun to think about the vision of what that’s going to be like, so I get into that energy, and then oftentimes it’s a Friday, and that’s when I record my videos. I don’t always feel like it, but I just pump myself up by thinking about the vision of what I have and how awesome it’s going to be.

Jamie Berman: One thing that really helps me too, is thinking about the other people, right? Because I realize I feel a lot of negative emotion when I’m thinking about myself and how I’m showing up, and how I’m being really critical. I can really shift out of that by thinking about who I’m serving, who I’m helping. Thinking about why I’m doing this. That really helps. It’s worth it to feel the nervousness or the … just tired, whatever it is.

Tobi Fairley: Yes. I think in my own head, I can clarify that. Just kind of wanted to touch on it, because I think the difference for me might even be, as I’m thinking out loud right now, the version you were talking about first where Brooke said to do it, or somebody else is expecting me to, I feel like to me, feels more like … I don’t know, it feels forced. It feels almost like I’m white knuckling, like “Just come on, let’s get through it” a little bit more. The energy feels different, as opposed to when I think about just not wanting to do something, and I don’t feel like it today. Definitely we notice that, I don’t feel like, “I don’t feel like doing this today,” and then you can go, “Well seriously, you’re going to be mad at yourself in three months that you didn’t do it,” or the “This doesn’t feel right. I don’t even know if I agree with her. Am I allowed to not agree with my mentor? Am I allowed to not think? Okay. Maybe I’ll just try it for a while because she said so, but it feels out of alignment. I don’t feel right about it. I worry about it. I circle back to it.”

Tobi Fairley: That’s kind of a totally different energy in my mind for me, of those two things. It’s hard to describe emotion sometimes, but just thinking out loud about that, I think everybody can kind of check in with themselves and start to say … I remember this one time I was definitely forcing myself to do something. And then I remember this other time where I did it anyway because I wanted to, and on the other side of it, it was so worth it, and maybe start to figure out the difference for them, because I just think it’s hard to put emotions in words.

Jamie Berman: Yes, totally. I think another one that’s been coming up for me, which has been interesting is, I’m creating more space than I used to have. Like I said, my calendar used to be 40 hours of blocked, every single hour, and now I’m creating more space. Now I have negative emotion coming up around having that space.

Tobi Fairley: Yes. Me too. Yeah, yeah.

Jamie Berman: [crosstalk 00:21:21] and not saying yes to more clients. Right now I’m full, and I used to be like, “Oh, let me just take as many as …”

Tobi Fairley: Yes.

Jamie Berman: Because I want to help everyone. But I realized that just, I’d be so depleted. So now, it’s uncomfortable saying, “No, I’m creating more space. No, I’m going to take this opportunity to have fun and go out with some friends or do something on a random day that I normally wouldn’t allow myself to do.”

Tobi Fairley: Yes, we’re both doing a lot more of that too. I think you’re so right. And I love … I think what the sort of aha moment for me was, and it was very similar to what you’re talking about, is when I got to a lot of those things I had checked off my list, especially in the interior design industry. I felt like I had done everything. I had done the product lines. I had been published on the national magazines. All the stuff. Won awards. All amazing. Not diminishing anything at all, but I think when I got to the end of it, like you, and I was like, “This is all there is,” I think when I looked back on it, I was like, “You know, that stuff doesn’t really matter at the level I thought it did.” What matters? And I was able to get way more perspective on what matters is making time in the middle of the week for lunch with my mom, who’s in great health right now, but won’t always be here, or I won’t always be. We never know who’s going first, or how long we’re going to be here or whatever.

Tobi Fairley: Or my daughter’s going to be in my house three more years. And just the moments to … I just shifted when I got back from Master Coach training, and I’m picking her up from school every day instead of my assistant, because I have a year and a half until she drives. I’m like, “That’s 30 minutes I can have her captive in the car and like soak her up.” I haven’t really thought that I had time for that or whatever, but when you get to some of those moments and shifts, I think you’re like, “No, the little stuff is the big stuff,” right? And the big stuff is really kind of the little stuff in the grand scheme of things. So interesting.

Jamie Berman: Yeah. It’s almost a gift, right? Because it’s a tool to evaluate and see how you don’t want to do things anymore, and how you want to move forward doing things.

Tobi Fairley: Is there any kind of … other than just that place of moving forward with fun, is there another way that people can kind of start to understand where they want to be emotionally, and maybe mentally? What place they want to be in to achieve goals in the right way? So if they’re like, “I haven’t done like y’all. I haven’t already checked everything off, but I don’t want to wait until I get there and then figure out that I agree with you. How do I start shifting now into evaluating things from the right place today?” Is there any tips you can give people?

Jamie Berman: Yeah. One of my favorite things that I’ve been practicing is thinking about the things in my life that I want, and how I think I’ll feel when I get there. So for example, if it’s a certain goal in your business, how do you think you’re going to feel when you get there? Which is really why we want anything, is because how we think it’s going to make us feel. You decide on, or you think about what’s that feeling? And then consider how you can start feeling that now, on purpose. And we know our thoughts create our feelings, and it’s not the circumstances. That thing can’t do it for us. It’s about cultivating that feeling now. I’ve been practicing feelings. Feeling on purpose. Not waiting to achieve something, to wait to have fun, right? Or to feel proud of myself, but what can I do, how can I feel proud of myself today?

Tobi Fairley: Yeah. It’s so fascinating. When I think about that, I think things like, “Okay. Right now, I’m working on shifting my business to go from a seven-figure business,” in the low, like $1 million to $2 million business up to an eight-figure business, which would be a $10 million business. It’s really fascinating, when you start to think about stuff like this, because you’re like, “Why are you really doing it? Are you doing it for the right reasons?”

Tobi Fairley: I find it so funny, but mind-bending to think, “Wait. I can just go out and figure out what I’m going to feel like when I have $10 million, and just feel that right now, and not ever make the $10 million,” which we really could, which is so weird, right? People are going to be like, “No, really? I can feel as happy as if I find the man of my dreams today when I’m by myself?” And the answer is yes, but it’s so hard to really get yourself to go. “Yeah, yeah. But …” or to commit I think, and decide not to do some of those things. Are there some moments that you’ve decided on some big, big stuff that you thought you would do, and you’re like, “No, I’m just not going to do that anymore?”

Jamie Berman: Oh, a hundred percent yeah. That’s the thing, I’d ask myself, “Why am I doing this?” Originally this was, my plan was, I’m going to hit 100k, then I’m going to do 500k, then I’m going to do a million.” Right? I had this big vision of what I wanted for my business. After last year, I slowed down and I was like, “Why am I doing this?” I was like, “Why do I need to hit 500k next year? Do I like my reasons?”

Jamie Berman: I didn’t like my reasons. I was like, “I have plenty of time to grow. What if I could just enjoy the process, start feeling those feelings that I think I’m going to feel, which is abundance, right? Feel that now, and just enjoy the journey. Do it in a way that’s fun,” and what’s crazy is of course, that’s really how you get [crosstalk 00:26:51].

Tobi Fairley: Right, when do you do that, the money actually shows up. Yeah. Because [crosstalk 00:26:55] … that’s so interesting, because I think most of us, our brain goes, “Well, yeah. But if I don’t push myself, then I’m just going to be lethargic and I’m just going to be good for nothing, lazy, whatever.” And that’s not what you’re talking about. You’re pouring into, “Maybe I make 100,000 another year, or another two years.” It’s not like we’re going to just kick our feet up and do nothing, but it’s just slowing it down, and feeling the whole experience as it’s happening. Really being there with it instead of just blowing through it. Yeah.

Jamie Berman: Yeah. I’ve reset that goal, and I decided, I’m like, “What if I just did 100k again, but from a place of fun and spaciousness?” It just felt like I was kind of reorganizing my brain in the way that I wanted to grow, because if I kept growing in the way that I had been, which was from pressure, and just being hard on myself, I knew I was just … I could get to 500k, but I was going to be depleted, because it would [crosstalk 00:27:51] me whipping myself all the way there.

Tobi Fairley: Yeah. That’s so interesting. So kind of what you’re saying is like, “Okay, I know how to now do 100k with the hustle. So now let me do 100k without hustling.”

Jamie Berman: With ease. With ease.

Tobi Fairley: “And then see the difference, and then see where I want to go next,” which I think is so good, because I think … sometimes I even have this conversation with people, and I’ve even heard Brooke also talk about it, of whether or not you actually have to hustle in the beginning of building a business. I think it’s so interesting, because I don’t know that I believe now that you have to hustle to hit the numbers. I think maybe the only reason you have to hustle is if you’re willing to learn from the hustle, so you can know how to not hustle. Right?

Tobi Fairley: We think the hustle is required for the money. Like it’s part of the hardness of … the difficulty, the stretching of making the money. And the truth is, it’s really just you teaching yourself that hustling sucks, and you can hang hustling up and still make the same amount of money, right?

Jamie Berman: That’s so true, yes. It’s so true.

Tobi Fairley: Interesting. So interesting. Yeah, and I do still fight with that some. I do still fight with myself a little bit, or at least find myself falling back into the believing that you have to hustle. It’s kind of like falling back into diet mentality after you’ve given it up, right? It still shows up.

Jamie Berman: Yep. How do you work with that when you notice it?

Tobi Fairley: Let’s see. So when I notice it now, it’s interesting. I try to put some accountability in place, especially with my team and other people, and verbalize it so that I’m like, “Hey everyone, I’ve noticed this about myself, and I want to move out of this energy, so let’s put this on the table, and let’s be accountable to the fact that I don’t want to move right back into hustling.”

Tobi Fairley: So it’s some awareness for sure. And it’s just that kind of … like putting some things and practices in place that remind me more quickly when I’m moving into that energy, because the one thing that I could totally do is say, “Okay, well I’m not going to hustle in business anymore, but I’m going to go over here on the side and create this whole other thing.” We’ve laughed about it, you and I, I know, but I can turn anything into work. I can turn a jigsaw puzzle into a job that has to be done in the next three and a half hours. I can turn anything, a hobby … I can turn watching a Netflix show into a job, and I have a deadline.

Tobi Fairley: So I have to be very, very conscious not to move into hustle energy about everything. It’s just like I created a really comfy spot in hustle, but the long-term effects are not comfortable at all. Like you said, they’re really uncomfortable. They’re really detrimental. But wow. It is. Yeah. It’s kind of like a vice or something. It feels like it’s the instant gratification of the hustle. It’s really kind of weird, and it’s sneaky because it looks productive. A lot of us know when we’re trying to clean up our eating or whatever, we’re like, “Well, it’s not going to make me feel good to go eat a whole bunch of sugar, or eat that whole cake or whatever. I might do it anyway. I might fail at it, whatever. It’s not the end of the world, but it’s probably not going to make me feel good.”

Tobi Fairley: But it’s so easy to say, “Oh yes, goals are amazing and we should all have these really big goals,” For years, I took it as a compliment, because so many people I know still today say this in my community and other men I know that look at me and they’re like, “Not only are you one of the hardest working women I know, you’re one of the hardest working people I know.” I used to wear that as a badge of honor. Now I’m like, “The joke’s on me,” and they mean it as a compliment too. But the joke is on me because I’m like, “Well, hell yes I am. And that really kind of sucks. I don’t want to do that anymore.”

Jamie Berman: Right.

Tobi Fairley: So, it’s really fascinating how the things that look positive sometimes can be so negative. And I’m sure that was true for almost everything that you were achieving. Yeah. So tell us about the difference in your 50-pound weight loss that you did the first time, because that kind of goes right into this concept, versus doing it the second time. What’s the difference? Because that’s exactly what we’re talking about here.

Jamie Berman: Oh it is. It’s totally … so the first time I lost the 50 pounds was when I was about 21, and I did it from criticizing my body, hating my body, wanting it to be different, just wanting to do anything to be thin. Because I had PCOS, so I really struggled with my weight for most of my life, and I always thought being thin was going to be the ticket.

Tobi Fairley: Fix all my problems.

Jamie Berman: Right. We laugh now.

Tobi Fairley: Yes.

Jamie Berman: But yeah, so I did it from this place of just being really hard on my body. And of course, I wanted to do it fast. I was being very impatient about it. I got weight loss pills from my doctor. I thought it was the magic ticket to everything. I just took the weight loss pills, which took away my appetite completely. And I lost those 50 pounds in probably six or seven months.

Tobi Fairley: Yeah.

Jamie Berman: Crazy.

Tobi Fairley: Yeah.

Jamie Berman: And I was like, “Yes.” I lost the weight, and then the crazy thing was though, I got there, and I didn’t feel any different. I still felt like I was overweight. I still criticized my body. And the feeling that came over me was just this crazy fear of gaining weight back, because I really didn’t do it in the way that we’ve done it now, where it’s shifting our mindset [crosstalk 00:33:24]. I didn’t do any of that work. It was literally just taking a pill to lose weight from this place of hate, I guess, is what I would sum it up as.

Jamie Berman: Of course I gained the weight right back, because I didn’t do any of the mindset work. I didn’t love myself. I didn’t love my body. So I gained it all back plus some throughout the years. Then I was just really upset, because I was like, “Ah, I thought I had done it. Like how did this happen?”

Tobi Fairley: Yes, “I was never going to be here again. I promised myself I wouldn’t do this again.” I’ve been there so many times too.

Jamie Berman: Yes. And then the second time around, I really learned from that experience, because it was right before my wedding, I was at my heaviest. In fact, I gained 30 pounds before my wedding. I couldn’t fit into my wedding dress. I had to buy a new one the week before the wedding.

Tobi Fairley: Oh no.

Jamie Berman: I was online, “Just ship me something white.” I felt horrible, and I was just stressed like crazy. And I was like, “I got to do something different. This is not working.” Because that whole time I was trying to lose weight and doing all the diets and everything. Then the second time around was when I decided, I was like, “I got to do this from love,” because I learned from the first experience. “I got to learn to love this body that I’m in right now, overweight. This is my first step.” So I did it from that place, where I hired a body image coach, just learned to accept where I was.

Tobi Fairley: Cool.

Jamie Berman: And of course then, once we do that, the universe shows us our next step, and that’s when I found Brooke and found a new way to do it, which was really working on my mind first. But I just wasn’t in a hurry. It was very similar to this [crosstalk 00:35:07].

Tobi Fairley: Yeah, exactly. Yes, yes, yes.

Jamie Berman: That’s when I lost it, and I knew it was going to be the last time. I felt it in my bones. I was like, “This is the last time I’m doing this. I’m doing it a way that I can live it, and I’m doing it because I want to, not because I feel I have to or anything’s going to be different when I get there.” It’s so interesting. It’s so similar to that journey that I’ve had both times with making money.

Tobi Fairley: Yeah. So, so interesting. I can relate in so many ways. And even though I probably wouldn’t exactly call it hating myself to making money. I mean, it obviously was, because of the things that I would do to myself. The way I would pack my schedule and then stay up all night, and half the time it felt like working three jobs, because I was an interior designer, then I added a coaching business on top of it, and I was a blogger, and I was a mom, and I was all this stuff. It was like just cram it all in there, which was so mean. You would never do that to someone that you love. You would be like, “Oh my gosh, what are you thinking? You’re killing yourself.”

Tobi Fairley: So yeah, it has to be so, so related. I just, I hadn’t really thought of it that way. Although, the solution to changing, now that I think about it, and working with my coach Susie very much was about when I would start to change my behavior and my decisions, I would use the mantra or the question “How do I lead with love? How do I love myself more today?” With every decision. Is it going to be loving me more to cram one more meeting in, or is it loving me more to tell those people it’s going to be six weeks before they can get on my calendar? And so, just having those little prompts like you said, and just questions, I think are so, so helpful.

Jamie Berman: That one’s a powerful one.

Tobi Fairley: Yeah. Really good. It is good, because you’re like, “Okay, that’s weird. What do you mean how do I love myself more?”

Jamie Berman: Yes you can apply that to anything.

Tobi Fairley: Exactly.

Jamie Berman: Like love yourself as a parent, in your career, with weight loss. You could bring that mantra everywhere.

Tobi Fairley: Exactly. I agree. That’s probably our big takeaway from this, right? Because that’s exactly what you said you did. That’s so good. Anything else for those people who are sitting in the place right now, and they’re like, “I’m there. I did all this stuff. I hustled. I’m mad at myself. I feel horrible. I feel like I could have a heart attack or a stroke at any moment. I do need to lose weight. My relationships are suffering. My kids hate me.” Which of course they don’t. But the whole thing, because that’s where we find ourselves. How do they move from there and just take a big old breath and start shifting things? Because, even though it sounds crazy, we know our habit is to just get up and do the same thing over and recreate the same experience over and over and over again unless we move out of this. So is it the, “How do I love myself more?” Are they even ready for that yet? At that point?

Jamie Berman: yeah, I think the first step, this was something really powerful that I did, was I wrote down, I got out my journal and I was like, “If there are no shoulds, if there’s nothing that I have to do or should do, what do I want? What do I want this next year to be like? If anything were possible?” And of course I ask my clients this all the time, but how often do I ask myself? Took me a while.

Jamie Berman: And I was like, “What would that look like?” It just opened my eyes a ton to there’s so much more and so much more out there that I just wasn’t seeing. I was seeing things just in this one way and dropping the expectations and the should and what other people … that I was perceiving other people think I should do. I just dropped all of it, and I wrote from that place of what would I really want? And that was super powerful.

Tobi Fairley: And did you have an answer immediately? Or did you just sit there with a blank piece of paper for a while and like, “I have no idea?” Or how did that process look?

Jamie Berman: Yeah, good question. I first thought about doing it. I didn’t actually do it. I was just thinking about it. I think I was on an airplane because that’s when I carve out a lot of time for just reflecting and thinking. I thought about it over a couple of days, and then it was so interesting, because I kind of planted the seed in my brain and then I felt like people like you were coming into my life, and showing me that, “Oh there’s other ways to do this thing.” And then, from that place I started writing, and uncovered a lot of things.

Tobi Fairley: Yeah. I love that. It’s so, so, so good. So good. Well thank you so much for coming on. We decided a month or two ago we were going to have this conversation, which was before we even went to Master Coach training, because we both were just like, “That is something that so many people need to hear,” that there’s nothing wrong with them. That when they get to the place they thought that would make them feel a certain way … because I think we go into a place of shame about it sometimes, or like, “I’m so lucky and I’m so fortunate, and the people would die to have what I’ve created,” and all that kind of stuff. And I think it’s just … I wanted everybody to know that it’s perfectly normal, and that the main reason is because nothing outside you is ever going to create a feeling inside of you ever, ever, ever, no matter how big it is. No matter if it’s, as I call it, Oprah level money or anything else, or fame or whatever you think you want.

Tobi Fairley: It all is an inside job. I just wanted to have that conversation so everybody could just relate and see if it shifted them this year for 2020, of how you’re going to show up differently. Because I think it’s got to be a conscious decision, and I think it’s hard. For me, it’s really hard. It’s less hard to see it. And for me, it’s more difficult to lay down some of the great big goals, like you said. And for me, I think it sounds a little morbid, but sometimes I even have to go to the place of not even “What if there weren’t any shoulds, but what if this were my last day or year on earth?”

Tobi Fairley: Or, “What if I had $1 billion?” Some extreme to where all the reasons I’m always proving are just kind of a nonissue anymore, and I could go to that place of, “Oh okay, well if that were the case, then I absolutely wouldn’t be doing 90% of things I’m doing right now, or at least not in the way I’m doing them.”

Tobi Fairley: Yeah. And I just wanted people to have that perspective. So thank you so much for being here. It was super fun.

Jamie Berman: Of course. Thank you.

Tobi Fairley: Keep us posted. Keep me posted, as I know you will. Because we’ll have to have you come back. It’ll be fun to have you come back a year from now, because when we’re on the front of something, and we think we’re doing it a certain way, it’s still never the way we think it is, right?

Jamie Berman: That’s so true. So, so true. I’d love to.

Tobi Fairley: We’re like, “I’m so surrendered to everything right now. I’m not forcing anything,” and next year you’ll be like, “Oh my God, I was so forcing everything last year.”

Jamie Berman: 100%.

Tobi Fairley: So good, but it’s all the journey. Well, thank you, thank you. I can’t wait to see you soon. I know I’ll see you sooner than all my audience sees you. Thanks for giving them this gift and this perspective of learning to love themselves through their goals. It’s amazing, and I’m so grateful.

Jamie Berman: Yes. So fun. Thank you, Tobi.


Tobi Fairley: Okay, so wasn’t that incredible? I hope you’re shifting your thoughts about how do you feel about yourself, how you approach your goals, and realizing that whether you’re trying to lose weight, or make money, or find the perfect relationship, or anything else, when you get there, unless you do the work on you, you’re going to be the exact same person you are right now, but with just a little bit more money, or a little bit smaller pants, right? A little bit more crowded house because you’ve moved a mate or a spouse in. But you’ve got to do the work on you, and I hope this helps you figure that out, or at least get started on that work. If you want to talk more about any of these topics, please come find me on Instagram. Send me a direct message. Jamie’s on Instagram, too.

Tobi Fairley: We can’t wait to hear what you think about this episode. We’re so excited that you listened to it, and if you loved it so much. or you’ve loved any of the other 99 episodes I’ve done, and would like to leave me a rating and review, I would absolutely love that. Search for the Design You Podcast on iTunes. Subscribe to it, and click ratings and reviews, and leave me … I would really love to see your review. Yeah, a rating is amazing. I’d love for you to click the stars, but what I really want to know is what you really think, okay? So head over there. Leave me a message, or look for me and Jamie on Instagram, or do both, because we can’t wait to hear from you really soon. I’ll be back next week, friends, with the 100th episode. We’ve got a lot of fun surprises and things in store for you. So see you here, same time next week. Bye for now.

Thank you so much for joining me for this episode of The Design You Podcast. And if you’d like even more support for designing a business and a life that you love then check out my exclusively monthly coaching program, Design You at TobiFairley.com.

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Hi! I'm Tobi

I help creative women (and a few really progressive dudes) design profit-generating, soul-fulfilling businesses that let them own their schedule, upgrade their life and feel more alive than ever!

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